Update: The conversation is ongoing, but the points largely center around what is said here.
Presented without complete introduction, I received this message from someone on YouTube, and am keeping the username anonymous.
Thunderf00t and FtB
A match made in heaven, to be sure.
I think you’ve been a bit, actually, way off on this one, and I’ll explain why:
Oh, this ought to be good.
First, you say that he picked an argument with Dillahunty. Frankly, I am usually impressed with Dillahunty’s arguments, but I get the impression that his agreement with FtB is based on limited information.
First off, Thunderf00t DID pick a fight with Dillahunty, when Matt was coming to Tf00t as a friend and attempting to explain to him why people found his behavior to be unacceptable. Tf00t was dismissive at best, and publicly so. Second, you know Dillahunty blogs at FTB and is on their private mailing list, right? He was privy to everything.
The point is this: You don’t have to agree with Thunderf00t’s behaviour, nor his method to dislike FtB’s issues. Frankly, I think Tf00t is very smart but has no ability to properly explain himself and this leads to… Well, this.
This is becoming a pattern, but two more things: One, I don’t agree with much of anything about Tf00t beyond his statements within pure science. Two, FTB is a group blog, not a Borg Cube. Different people do, in fact, have different opinions there. While I do not agree with some of them (and none of them have any real contact with me) and have no desire to stir up stuff within their community, I refuse to be so unrealistic as to think of them as a hive mind.
On the other hand, from your blog post, you yourself have ended up in the exact same situation, you and sofiarune, who have, to be honest, hounded Tf00t and insulted him on each of his blog posts and Youtube vids.
I think you drastically overestimate both the amount of time spent thinking about Thunderf00t, the amount of energy devoted to it, and my attention span.
That having been said, I’m pretty sure Da F00t hasn’t even noticed me, nor do I really care. He’s doing very much what Pat Condell does, which is treat YouTube as a one-way communications medium.
As for “the exact same situation,” I’m not sure what you mean. I don’t blog at FTB, rarely read or comment there, and am not injured or at a loss because of anything that’s happened.
And yet, you saw how you’re treated when you dare to disagree.
I’m thick-skinned. ^.^
Compare this to the so-called “Tf00t drones” as the FtBers try to do.
Dude, Amet and Justicar on Tf00t’s side. That is one hell of a lot of egocentric stupid right there in two individuals. Are you sure you want to go there?
How many complaints are there of Thunderf00t banning people
None that I’m aware of, except for sofiarune being blocked by Tf00t on Twitter.
of Thunderf00t getting his “drones” to harass someone with no real arguments
Ever heard of TamTamPamela? Just the easiest example at hand.
or tf00t modifying or deleting comments?
You can’t modify comments on YouTube, does removing video responses count?
And now, Zvan just proved how willing she is to defend a terrible anti-male statement, that even you and sofiarune were infuriated.
I don’t think you read the post, and I think you’re assuming a lot. Assuming Laden and Zvan are telling the truth, it was an attempt to highlight just how provocative statements about men are compared to statements about women. Not sure if that’s accurate, but even at that level it was a stupid thing to at a conference panel without explicitly explaining why he did it.
So while I disagree with tf00t’s methods, he’s still a sight better than PZM and Skepchick’s methods. You ask why nobody paid attention to Laden’s sexist comments before?
What do PZ and Skepchick (which is an entirely different group blog, btw) have to do with Tf00t and Laden/Zvan? More importantly, what does this have to do with me and/or sofiarune? When did I ask why nobody paid attention to it, and given all the furor about it, why would I have asked such a stupid thing?
Well, because the FtB/Skepchick crowd took it as par for the course. It needed an outsider.
This sounds like a bad 80s fantasy movie.
Thunderf00t is an idiot,
At least we agree on something.
but he is good at raising awareness.
Awareness that expertise is (in many cases) demonstrably not transferable?
You can disagree with him but he raises awareness about issues.
So do blisters on certain areas of the body.
And in this case, I’m on his side in that I agree with the FtB’s FC5 harm to the atheist community.
I have no idea what FC5 stands for, I have no desire to be on his side when he’s so ready to throw people under the bus, and you are delusional if you think there s any kind of discrete Atheist community.
What troubles me about the FtB followers
As opposed to the Tf00t followers
are the people who are all too quick to call people misogynists when it comes to outsiders,
As opposed to those who talk about Religious apologists and feminists as if they were Hurting Freedom?
but when discussing issues like Laden’s comments, then become extremely hesitant.
Maybe because there is a group of people watching their every move ready to pounce on any mistake they make, much like you feel they are about you.
Why can’t everyone get the same treatment? Why is anyone against FtB automatically relegated to the worst possible treatment of everything they say?
Because you follow loud people who see pushing the Overton Window as a strategy, when all that does is encourage the abandonment of the implicit social norms that make civil interaction possible.
Isn’t this analogous to the manner in which William Lane Craig treats his opponents’ arguments?
Absolutely not. Craig is a third-rate sophist. What is happening here, is a mosh pit. Completely different.
Seriously, I’m not certain what the point of this was, so I’ll just lay out my position for all to see (I can’t speak for sofiarune, but I suspect her answer will be similar): I possess a limited ability to perceive and understand the universe around me, therefore I will question and test the understanding I have. Because I know that the other human beings around me are also limited in the same way, I will also question theirs. It doesn’t matter who they are.
Because groups of people are stupid, usually in proportion to the size of the group , I especially am suspicious of groups that band together under a particular label. Because really large egos can behave as a group would in this regard, and lots of fans can amplify this effect by acting as an echo chamber, public figures, and anyone who seeks to have their opinion treated as somehow more factual that another’s are especially suspect in my eyes.
In short, I don’t trust any human being speaking off the cuff on the Internet as authoritative, and am perfectly happy being seen as the disreputable person ranting on the corner. Why? Because I think the only way I could be sillier than I am is to decide to slap a metaphorical jersey on and join in on the silly games so many insist on playing while there are actual interesting things to discuss and debate out there.
I will get caught up in it from time to time, at which point I will eventually catch myself, kick myself in the pants, and move on to more interesting things. That would be far less disgraceful than becoming part of a group that is primarily focused on being in a group.
If that seems too nuanced for you, I suggest you watch this: